Mike Kim

During her visit to New York City, my (sweetheart!!!) niece Nylah asked if I could help with a school project on social media and influence.

(She thinks I’m an actual influencer, haha.)

We braved the winter weather and did an interview while walking towards the Museum of Natural History.

I always tell people that if you want to explain what you do, try explaining it like you’re talking to a kid. Well, this is my attempt!

I could have explained it to her in way more complex terms and she would have understood me – she’s a smart cookie. She asked me some pretty deep questions! But you get what I mean.

Reflecting on our interview, I realized it’s really important to have these kinds of conversations with kids. I share some life skills I think will be really important for Nylah, as well as recommended books, the reality behind what people see online, and the pitfalls and opportunities social media affords.

You can watch the video here, and I put a cleaned up transcript below.

1. How did you first come to know about or get interested in influencing?

I started blogging like 12 years ago (like before you were born) and I just wanted an outlet to share my ideas. So I just wrote these articles, but nobody read them. Including my mom, because I didn’t know how to get word out about what I do.

I took a few classes on how to blog and then a year after I started blogging, I started podcasting and was teaching what I do at work and then it just kind of grew.

I joined a couple of communities, like where people were doing similar things. And so that’s how I learned to get better at it.

I don’t think I ever felt like I needed to influence people. ‘Cause that’s not what it was called back then. We were just recording and creating content.

But yeah, all these years later it’s helped me in my business and my practice and all that. So that’s how it started.

2. Have your attitudes towards influencing changed over time?

Yes, for sure. It’s important to be able to get attention because that will help any business owner, that’ll help you in what you do. And people, this is how people express themselves now.

So for life skills, it’s important to learn storytelling. It’s important to learn, you know, whether you want to do video or writing. It’s important to be able to express your ideas.

So that’s definitely changed over time. I realized that that’s really important, so that’s something I would want you to learn. Right. Like how to tell stories, how to express yourself, how to share your ideas and your perspectives.

So it’s been better. In the beginning I was like, oh, I don’t want all this attention, but now I realize those are really, really important skills for the big world we live in.

3. Is there something about influencing that no one knows or understands?

I think it’s not that no one doesn’t understand it, but everyone does it in a different way. Everyone expresses themselves in a different way.

You can go viral. There are a lot of formulas and tricks to going viral, but sometimes they’re not really aligned with who you are or the way that you want to do things.

So it’s important to, I think, stand by the way that you express yourself. But then also at the end, like, you know, we’re all kind of trying to game the algorithm and figure out what’s going on there.

So yeah. So that’s something that not everybody really understands, but people are always trying to figure out.

4. Do you use celebrity influence or know someone who does?

Yeah. I know a lot of people who are pretty influential. They’ve got good followings. Some of my clients have very good followings.

Other brands will hire influencers to promote their stuff. It all kind of comes from the fact that if you have a social media account or you’re creating content and people like you, like your friends.

Like have you ever had a friend ask you for a recommendation on food or like, hey, you’re going to New York, I have some recommendations. Like that’s basically what it is.

People are your friends. And on social media, they kind of become like parasocial connections and they want to know what you do and what you like. And so that’s, it’s just sort of like that at scale, if that makes sense.

5. How does celebrity endorsement impact consumers purchasing?

Oh yeah. It can have a big effect on consumer purchasing. This is not new to the internet or social media.

People have been doing that since advertising, right? Like we would listen to famous people and they would do a commercial for a car or clothes or a product, and people buy it because, you know, they like these celebrities.

So what’s happening now is every person can do that to some degree because of their social media channels.

If you have social media, I don’t know if your parents have allowed you to have it yet. So your friends are probably following along a little bit on what you’re doing here. And they’ll say, oh, what’s that restaurant? Oh, you went to the museum.

And imagine doing that, but you have 10,000 people following you or a hundred thousand people following you.

And then the museum’s like, hey, we really love that you shared your video at the museum. We’d like to give you free passes. That’s kind of how it works.

Or they might just be like, we’ll pay you to promote the museum or the restaurant. So it’s kind of like that.

6. In what ways do celebrities shape public opinions on social and political issues?

Deep question, haha. I think they can definitely shape public perception about things. Celebrities, actors, leaders, world leaders, they all understand to some degree the power of storytelling and marketing and getting word out about your ideas.

And people form opinions about somebody based on that limited time that they have to understand someone. Right.

Like for example, Taylor Swift, really popular, but she’s not everyone’s favorite.

And it doesn’t have to be like, you have to be the best. It might be you just don’t like her and you like Katy Perry instead. It’s not like she’s better or worse.

Your dad and I have different players that we like, not because one player is the best. I just like that personality more than another player. Right?

So it just really, but if a lot of people listen to that person, it can be really, really influential. It can impact how people think about certain topics.

So if there’s a celebrity that you follow and they tell you, Nylah, you should vote for this person or you should care about this cause, you might take it a little bit more seriously ’cause you look up to that person and you listen to their music.

So yeah, it’s definitely impactful, but I also think people are getting a little bit smarter about who they’re listening to and being discerning about what people are sharing and saying, because we all have access to information online.

7. How do celebrities in media influence societal standards of beauty and success?

They impact it a lot. What you and I think growing up in the United States as beautiful or successful could be very different here than in another country.

I grew up in New Jersey. You grew up in California, right? The standards are a little bit different. You know, if I go to Korea, Koreans don’t think I look Korean. Right? Because my hair is short like your dad, and I don’t have that K-drama look, you know?

So they might be like, oh, he doesn’t look Korean. He’s not my type.

So yeah, it can impact everything. ‘Cause that’s who they’re seeing on TV and in movies. So yeah, it can impact a lot.

8. What do you think I should look into next as I continue to research influence?

There’s a couple books you should read. One is called Influence, by Robert Cialdini, and he talks about psychological triggers on why human beings make certain decisions or how they make certain decisions.

So I would study that. ‘Cause influence is really about psychology. Right.

It’s just can I get you to understand, believe, or make a decision on something that I want you to.

And if you can do that, you can do almost anything in the world.

That’s why storytelling is so important. That’s why communication is so important.

So I would say that you should read those books because those are tried and true principles, been around forever.

Read some books on storytelling. I can send you some. And marketing. ‘Cause these are skills that you’re gonna need to know for the rest of your life. They’ll help you in whatever you want to do.

9. Is there a psychology behind influencing?

Yes. There’s tons of psychology. It’s all psychology.

So let’s say that influence book is a good example. Let’s say I do something nice for you. And you’re gonna feel like you gotta do something nice for me. Right?

Or I’ll say certain things a certain way. And it can trigger people thinking through certain things.

If I know how to say things a certain way, you know how to say things to your mom and dad to get them to do things, right.

So imagine you know how to do that in business and in marketing. It can go a long way to help you.

10. How has the rise of social media influencers changed celebrity influence?

I think it’s sort of evened out the playing field.

So there are people who are very, very popular on television, in movies when I was growing up. And there are some just random YouTubers who have way more followers on their social media channels. Right. Or they have way more followers on Instagram.

And so I think it sort of leveled the playing field.

Back then, attention was only available through a couple of different channels. And so you had to go get a TV show on a certain channel, or you had to get an article written up about you in a magazine.

And there’s only a set number of magazines that are out there, or there’s only a couple of top actors, you know, or actresses that are in all the movies.

Now it’s very different. If somebody like you, somebody like me, could have a hundred thousand followers on social media, have more than radio hosts or actors or actresses from years ago.

So it’s sort of leveled the playing field. I think that’s a good thing in the sense that you don’t have people who are controlling who’s popular or not.

Like everyone kind of has a shot as long as they learn how to do things their own way.

So I think that’s a good thing. I think it’s good that it’s evened it out.

11. How do celebrities manage the complexities of maintaining their public image while also expressing their personal beliefs?

This is a great question.

So one of the things I always tell people, I try to advocate that you shouldn’t try to build a brand. You should just be that person that you’re trying to sell to people.

It’s too much work. ‘Cause then you’re just performing and acting all the time. And I think that you can lose yourself.

There are a lot of people who lose themselves even if they’re trying hard to be authentic and be real. You can’t get to know someone completely just by watching a couple of their videos or watching some of their posts. Right.

There’s much more to it than that.

So I think that that’s one of the dangers on the flip side of social media and influencing and all these sorts of things that if we become popular on YouTube, it’s gonna be because of the way that we shoot our videos or something.

But then we have to stay that way in order to stay popular.

And what if you change what you’re interested in and what if you don’t want to do certain things anymore, or you want to talk about different topics, then you’re gonna feel a little bit trapped.

And then you might wonder, well, should I continue to support this cause or this initiative because it makes me money or do I stay true to my beliefs?

So it can be very complex and I think a lot of people go through things like that.

And you just need good people around you, good guidance, good coaches, good family, good friends who keep you grounded in who you really are.

12. What are some common misconceptions about influencer marketing that you’ve encountered?

I think some people think that just ’cause you have a million followers, you’re gonna make a ton of money. That’s not necessarily true.

I think people who see accounts like that assume that all their followers are real. That’s also not always true. You can buy them.

There are people who have very large social media accounts, but that doesn’t mean that the people who follow them are real fans.

So there are other channels that are way more connected than social media. Like for example, in my business, the most important channel is email.

Which might sound weird to you.

But if I’m getting to someone’s phone by sending them an email and they’re looking forward to it and they’re reading my stuff, I have a lot more control over that. ‘Cause I’m not trying to fight the algorithm to show my stuff to people. Right.

So I think people automatically sometimes assume, just ’cause you have a large following, that those are real, true, passionate, rabid fans and they’re not always like that.

Other times people think that everything they see on a social media account is true.

And so one of the things I always say is some people feel that attention is owed to them. And they will sometimes rent a mansion on Airbnb and a bunch of nice cars and shoot video, and they’re kind of implying that this is their house.

But it’s not.

And then the other side is that people overshare things and they air all their dirty laundry online and they’re trying to be quote unquote authentic, but they’re not actually being helpful or solving any problems.

It’s sort of like when you’re on the highway and you see a car accident, everyone slows down and looks at the accident. There’s a lot of attention there, but it’s not for the right reason.

So what I always tell people, if you’re creating content, try to just ask yourself, based on what you’re sharing, can I build a campfire around what I’m sharing?

Meaning what happens in a campfire? You tell stories. It’s a warm place. It’s a light in a dark place. Everyone feels welcome. You know, you share those kinds of things.

That will resonate with people and keep you grounded in who you are and what you stand for.

•••

If you’re interested in the books that shaped me as a communicator and marketer, here are the originals I studied:

• Ogilvy on Advertising – David Ogilvy
• The Boron Letters – Gary Halbert
• Advertising Headlines that Make You Rich – David Garfinkle
• Influence – Robert Cialdini
• The 22 Immutable Laws of Marketing – Al Ries & Jack Trout
• Great Leads – Michael Masterson & John Forde
• Tested Advertising Methods – John Caples

You’ll see that I really focused on copywriting, the most important marketing skill I developed when I starting out. There are many more marketing books I’d recommend, but I studied these titles many times over.